The 8th Annual SHU Media Exchange

The 8th Annual SHU Media Exchange

August 14, 2019 2 By Stanley Isaacs


(upbeat hip music) – All right, you wake up in the morning, you grab your coffee. Of course, you turn on WSHU and Tom Kuser, you have CNN on the big
screen, and you go online to check out the New York
Times, your local paper, and everything on Facebook and Twitter. That’s a lot of news to start your day. Do you ever stop to
think, how much of this is actually credible, and how
much of it do you believe? We welcome you, to a special
The Full Story on WSHU and online, at wshu.org. And today, you can also watch
us right there on wshu.org. I’m Ron Ropiak, and we
thank you, for being part of our program today. We’re teaming up with the
students and the faculty of the School of
Communication, Media & the Arts at Sacred Heart University. And we’re broadcasting our show today from the Martire Business
& Communications Center on the campus of Sacred Heart. And our questions today
are (sighs heavily) deceptively simple, but still complex. How do you get your news? And how do you know that
what you’re reading, and hearing, and watching
is actually accurate, it’s unbiased, and it’s real? Now, it’s always an important
topic, but today in 2019, our future and what we
leave future generations may depend on this. We have a number of great guests today, and we’d like to hear from you. You can join us by email,
send us your thoughts and your comments to [email protected], and we’re also on Twitter @FullStoryWSHU. Now, we’re going to welcome
our first two guests, Belinha DeAbreau is Professor with the Department of
Communication, Media & the Arts at Sacred Heart University. And Jaci Clement is the CEO of the Fair Media Council on Long Island. Welcome both, thanks for being here! – Thank you.
– Thank you. – And Jaci, of course to
you, welcome and thank you, for making that trek today.
– I was happy to. It’s a great day out there. – Professor, I’m gonna start with you. This is nothing new, is it? I mean, I can remember as
kid watching President Nixon, and he went after the
Washington Post, he went after the New York Times, and then after awhile, he went after CBS also,
and Walter Cronkite. He railed against them, and
said the media was against him, and journalism was bad. Is there anything new here? – I think what’s new is the technology that’s carrying this information now. Because it is true that we
still have the three sources, ABC, CBS, you know, NBC,
but we have many more ways for getting information,
and some of those places don’t necessarily carry valid information. And so, that’s part of the issue. We get it through Twitter, we
can get it through Instagram, we can get it through Facebook, and that has created more of a, a bigger swing, or a bigger
circle in which people are getting their information. Not necessarily accurate information. – Not accurate information. Jaci, give us a little
background of your organization. – We are a non-profit
organization, and we do two things. We advocate for quality
news, which sounds like we’re very current and relevant, but we actually started
doing this back in 1979, just to further your point that
some things just aren’t new. But the flip side of what we do, is also, we work to create a media savvy society, because we really believe you need to be an educated news consumer
today, to be able to navigate today’s media landscape, because it’s complicated. – But, Jaci, here’s my problem. – What, Ron? – There’s so much news out there. It’s my job, I have to actually follow the news all the time,
I have to be up to date, because if I’m not, the show suffers. This is what I get paid to do. If I have trouble doing it, how does the average person figure it
out, when the average person has a life, and their doing things. – Okay, very good question. How much time do we have? – About 45 minutes left.
– Okay. Let me try to do this
in a minute, or less. The first thing to
remember, is you control the information that’s coming at you. Today, you have more
control over that than ever. So I know a lot of times
people feel powerless, and just inundated and overwhelmed, you can turn it off at any time. You can decide when you take a break. That’s number one. The other thing we like
to do, is we actually like to give people what we call a media diet. You want to look at the sources of where your information is coming from. That’s one of the things we find today is, when you go online for news,
or you’re getting it on your phone, what you tend
to see are headlines. You don’t actually see the source of where it’s coming from. Okay, we want you to start
paying attention to the source, so that if it’s a recognized
source that you know, you’re gonna give that a
little bit more credibility than that news outlet out
there that you don’t know. That’s not to say you
can’t learn new things from different outlets, but a news outlet you’re not familiar
with, you want to go to that little about section,
and find out what it’s about, and determine whether or not
it is actually news or not. So we do want people to
incorporate a variety of news into their
media diet, the same way you want to incorporate
fruits and vegetables into your regular diet. But you also want to be cognizant of media bias, okay? I’m gonna say it, it
does exist, it happens. The standard case in
America, is we talk about you want news from the left and right. So, okay, everyone says, oh,
you mean and Fox and CNN. Okay, fine, you can go there. There are lots of other places, too. But you also want news
from inside America, and outside of America. So inside America, you’ve
got your public radio, you’ve got Voice of America,
you’ve got places like that. Outside of America, the great
thing about the internet, is you have more voices than
ever that you can access. You can go to BBC, or
France 24, Al Jazerra. But the idea is to get a full picture. The other thing that’s very
important, that we underscore, is reading more than you watch or listen. Because those stories that
you read tend to be longer in format, they tend to
give you more background. If you’re only listening to radio or television news during
the day, think of that as more of updates, to
what was in the paper. – Right.
– Okay, not the full story. So if you don’t know the background, you’re never really going
to understand the why, like why is this story important to me, why is it impacting my
life, that sort of thing. And the other thing
is, we know that people are like inherently lazy,
we’d rather sit down and turn on the TV, and put our feet up, and have some popcorn, than go to the gym. You’re familiar with that, right? – Yeah. – It’s much easier to sit
back and let people tell you what they think, and then say,
oh, yeah, I think that, too. As opposed to doing the research yourself, and paying attention only to the news, as opposed to opinion, or
commentary, or talk shows, which are filled with people
giving you their opinions. – Okay, now, you mentioned The Full Story, and we like The Full Story.
– Okay. – That’s why we have this show. (person laughing) Professor, what do you
read, what do you watch, what do you listen to? – Well, I actually was
gonna piggyback and say, I think people need to learn how to triangulate their information. I listen to a variety of different things. And frankly, at one point, when the news, watching the news became so
difficult, I actually switched to all radio all the time, by listening to things like BBC
America, listening to NPR, listening still to Fox, and
CNN, and all the other places, so that I could also get that. But I had the option to
switch the information when I was ready, as
quickly as I wanted to. And then also, give myself
maybe a break from it, to also step away when I don’t, when it can be so overwhelming, when there’s so much
information coming at you. And so much of it,
unfortunately, is repetitive, we get the same types of news
stories almost every day. And so, that makes it more difficult. Programs like yours provide
sort of a different lens of the world, because, it
almost fills in the blanks to other things that are
happening in the world. And I find that that’s
one of the problems I see with the way the news industry
is going right now, is that, they’re so focused only on
the one story of the day, they forget about the rest of the world, and the rest of the population. And I think radio offers that opportunity, because there’s so much more
happening in that arena. – And many times what’s
frustrating, is they focus on that one story of the
day, and then the next day it disappears, and you
never hear of it again. – You never hear again, you never have the follow-through, and
you, there’s a lot of, well, what happened, you
know, and we don’t know. And so, if you’re
interested you have to be, as the consumer, the one to
actually go after the story and find out what it is
that actually occurred, and maybe the ending, if there was ending. – Jaci, you mentioned media bias, and I agree with you completely. And here’s something that
I find very frustrating. In the last few years… So in Journalism 101, I
was taught keep my opinions to myself, try to be
balanced, try to be fair, get all sides, present
it in the right fashion. Nowadays, especially,
when I watch TV news, it appears to me that the
reporters will report the facts, but then the anchor
will follow-up and says, now give me your opinion. And I sit there and I go,
look, I really don’t care about this person’s
opinion, I’m watching this because I want to get the story. And if I want opinion,
I’ll listen to a talk show. – Yeah. – Is that the trend? – Well, yes, and I would
appreciate it, like, if you would call the
networks and let them know that opinion, please. What’s happened is, you
know, when everything kind of converged, so
everyone is considered a multimedia outlet now. You know, you’re not
just TV, you’re online, you have podcasts, things of that sort. They had all this other space to fill, so they started encouraging
anchors to blog. You know, to tell your personal opinion about stories that you’re covering, or stories being covered by the newsroom. And that is something new. I mean, media bias itself
isn’t something new. But because we have this different landscape.
– But we all have a bias. – There’s bias, but, you
know, if you have a bias, you can still be fair.
– Uh-huh. – That’s something different. And honestly, I mean, everyone has a bias or an agenda behind everything they do. Your audience today, they
came to learn something. That’s an agenda, is that a bad thing? No, right? It’s only a bad thing if you
don’t understand the agenda, which is what we find with news today. People don’t understand it. – Can I interject one?
– Sure, please. – Because I also think, you know, what we’re talking about
is, are you a journalist, are you a consumer or someone who is just interested in news,
because we have bloggers who are not necessarily journalists, who are putting put information. I just finished reading
“Truth Worth Telling” by Scott Pelley, and he talks about this. Journalism is about fact finding. There is a process, you
go to journalism school so you understand the process and what you’re supposed to be
communicating to the public. Somewhere along the line,
we’ve made news infotainment, and that’s what’s changed. When we have all these groups
that are sitting together at a round table, and
we have all these people who have an opinion, which
is fine, you have an opinion. But it is an opinion, and
it’s being transmitted as if it’s news, and that’s
where the problem starts to really filter in. – When did that start to change? – Well, we blame cable
television for most of that. – So you think that when CNN came along that started to change? – Well, you suddenly had
all this time to fill. You know. Before that, you had a half-hour broadcast of news, or an hour. Now, you suddenly have 24
hours, so what do you do with that format?
– Right. And I don’t think that CNN
originally started that way, because if you recall, they
actually started, I think, during the Gulf War. – Yeah, they were–
– Right. – And so, it was–
– It was hard news. – It was hard news. But once you step away from
that, and you’re looking to fill that time, it started to switch. And so, now all of a sudden
we have these other pieces. – Professor DeAbreau, Jaci Clement, CEO of the Fair Media
Council, thank you both, we are running out of time, thank you. – Thank you.
– Please, come back. – Happy to. – It’s The Full Story on WSHU,
we’ll take a short break, we’ll be right back. (light upbeat music) (light fast-paced music) – [Spokesperson] The continuing growth of Sacred Heart University has
produced an immense interest from students in the
world of communications. As a result, Sacred Heats established the new School of
Communication & Media Arts, simply known as SCMA. The school offers degrees
in both a graduate and undergraduate level. Students have an opportunity
to study public relations and corporate communications, film, television and media
production, journalism, media literacy, and theater arts. The faculty includes
renowned media professionals, with real-world experience
and academic prestige. – Classroom experience
here is really hands-on. You’re at the technical director’s chair, and getting to work with the switchboard. So I feel really confident
going into an interview and being like, yes, I sat at that chair, and yes, I’ve done that
job, and I know how to work a teleprompter. – [Spokesperson] The
production facilities include two television studios,
two screening rooms, six post-production editing
labs, and multimedia classrooms, a radio station, a media
theater, and forum for events. Our students describe their experience as: – Exciting! – Contemporary. – Artistic. – Empowering. – And extraordinary. (light upbeat music) (upbeat hip music) – It’s The Full Story on WSHU, and streaming live today at WSHU.org. I’m Ron Ropiak, and
we’re broadcasting live with the Sacred Heart Media Exchange from the Martire Business
& Communications Center on the campus of Sacred Heart University. And today, we’re taking
a hard look at the news. We have two guests for this segment. Gary Rose has been with us before. Gary is the Professor and Chair in the Department of Government,
Politics & Global Studies at Sacred Heart University,
and he is prolific, to say the least, he has
written, is it 13 books now? – 13.
– 13 books. Macaela Bennett is the
Senior Analyst and Director of News Literacy Partnerships
at NewsGuard Technologies. Thanks, for being here, both of you. – Thank you.
– Sure. I bought the tie with the royalty checks. (people laughing) – With the 13th book.
– Right, yeah. – Professor, I’m gonna say
this in the politest way, you’ve been around. You’ve been talking about this for awhile. You’ve seen your fair share of attacks on journalists over the years. Is this anything new? – It is actually somewhat new. I think a lot of it has to do with the increasing polarization
in American politics. And what we have here, our media outlets that I think are really playing to their, to their base and their markets. And so, I would say,
yes, it is somewhat new. I remember growing up where
Walter Cronkite was really the, you know, the gold
standard of journalists. And now, I’m not even sure who the gold standard is any
longer, because it seems to me every network that
I watch, and by the way, I don’t start the morning with CNN. I know you said maybe that’s
where people began, I don’t. Because, I simply have given up on a lot of the media outlets. I just find too much narration, something you were mentioning–
– Was that what, what we were just talking about. – I do.
– You find that too much opinion is being
mixed in with the facts? – And again, I think it’s
so in order to, again, appeal to a particular audience, and to sustain their ratings. And so, that is simply the
end result of, I think, a country that has become
increasingly polarized into right and left, and
a very small center now. And so, our media outlets
like Fox, and CNN, and MSNBC, CBS, ABC, NBC, I think
they all are aware of that, and they realize what their audiences are, and they have to accommodate that, and make their audiences feel connected. – Macaela, I’ll get to you in one second. But, Professor, it almost
sounds like you’re saying we should step back in time a little bit, go back to the way it used to be. – Yeah.
– 20, 30 years ago. – Oh, I think something
definitely has happened within the realm of journalism. I’m not exactly sure
how we can correct that. Again, because I know markets
drive a awful lot of what, what outlets are doing. But, looking back in
time, sure, I would say that journalists were far
more objective at one time, and I’m very disappointed in that. – Macaela, tell us about NewsGuard
Technologies, what is it? – Yes, the NewsGuard
Technologies is a tool that helps us do a lot of the things that we’re already talking about today. We were founded in 2018 by
two long-time media people, one was a former publisher
of the Wall Street Journal, another is also an author of many books, and a lot of startup publications. As long time media people,
they saw this problem arising of a website pops up in a
Facebook feed, or a Google Search or something, and people
wonder what is the source, I don’t know about it. Maybe they do go to the about page, as Jaci had mentioned
earlier, maybe they don’t. And so, we are a browser extension, and tech companies license
us, so that way when you are in that Facebook feed,
or Google Search or something these badges called a NewsGuard badge will show up next to the URL. And when you hover over
it, you will find out a bunch of background
information about the source, such as who owns and finances this? Do they have an agenda,
do they disclose to you, the reader, what the agenda is? Are they mixing commentary and
news in an irresponsible way? And what is their history? Have they published really
unreliable information in the past, when were they founded? So we will give you all the context. – Okay, so give me an example. We’ve been talking about CNN. Let’s say CNN, MSNBC,
Fox, how do you rate them? – Our ratings are specifically
on the web site content, which is something that
I like to emphasize, because there will be a
difference in what a user will experience if they are turning on CNN on their television, versus
the content that they may see if they are going to the website. So we are providing information about what a user will find on that website. How we rate them, is we’re
giving you information of this is what you will find on the website, this, you know, all of that stuff. But they are rated so
far as our nine criteria, we have nine standards of journalism. They are rated quite highly
in that they disclose to you who owns and finances them,
they label on their website where’s the commentary,
where’s the hard news, that sort of thing. – So who’s the best? – There (chuckles) is no such
thing by our rating standards. – There is no, but you have to have one that is kind of higher than others, right? – There are publications
that will receive check marks for all nine of our criteria, and there are ones that will not. – Okay. Could you give us a quick example of one that got all nine check marks? – Oh, so there’s not all
of that many that did. I’d like to point out some, oh, actually, NPR is a good example of one. (people laughing)
– You like that. (people laughing) – Playing to the crowd. (people laughing) But one of the reasons that
they do receive check marks on our nine criteria, is because they have extensive editorial policies that they publish to their readers. You can find it on the website, they have an extensive corrections
policy for both on-air and stuff that you will
find on the website. And so, one of my favorite
examples of a correction, or of just an explanation
to readers about something that happened, is there was
an NPR affiliate last year, maybe you’ve heard of
this, where an editor or producer discovered
that a freelance reporter for NPR was reusing content from between 2011 an 2017, and maybe 2018. After discovering this,
rather than just not using that freelancer anymore,
the editor published an entire article explaining
this is what happened, this is how we discovered
it, and this is the action that we have taken. And I think that sort of
transparency in the media is something that is going to help us restore trust in the media. – I want to take a moment to turn to the Julian Assange story. It was back in May, that
the US Justice Department brought charges against
the WikiLeaks Founder under the Espionage Act. Now, the Government
alleges Assange conspired with the former Army Intelligence Analyst by the name of Chelsea
Manning, and that was to break into government
files and then publish them. What the government is doing has sent, I think it’s polite to say ripples through the media industry. – [Carrie] Julian Assange
is certain to raise a First Amendment defense. He basically says, if
he faces prison time, so will the New York
Times, the Washington Post, and other news outlets. In fact, Bruce Brown, who
runs the Reporters Committee for Freedom of the Press is just out with a statement saying,
“These charges pose “a dire threat to all journalists.” The fear is, this legal
theory could be used to criminalize core reporting activity some of us do every day. The Justice Department says–
– Trying to break into a government records room. But this prosecution clearly criminalizes the journalistic process, no? – [James] Yes, it does, it
means that the journalist who tries to get classified information is really now under a cloud,
because he can be tried under criminal laws, for
just gathering information. So that amounts, as you
say, to criminalizing the journalistic process. [Bob] Back in the day, you litigated– – [Kevin] I don’t think
it should hinge on whether he’s a journalist, or not. We’ve heard people from the
Department of Justice say, we would never do this to a journalist. I think, making that distinction
is almost as dangerous as the prosecution itself. We do not want the Department of Justice or any other arm of
governments deciding who is and who is not a journalist. – Let me run down for you
who is speaking there. That was NPRs National Justice
Correspondent Carrie Johnson, and then we heard Bob Garfield. He’s the Host of On the
Media, and he was speaking with James Goodale, who
served as General Counsel for the New York Times during
the Pentagon Papers trial. And finally, at the end,
you heard Kevin Goldberg, who is the Legal Counsel
to the American Society of News Editors, and he
specializes in First Amendment law. Professor Rose, should journalists be extra concerned
nowadays, because of what the Justice Department is trying to do? – I’m not as concerned about, about what’s happening
with Julian Assange, that perhaps some others are. You might find this
surprising, coming from someone who teaches The First
Amendment at this university. First of all, I don’t regard, and I know the government doesn’t either, they don’t regard Julian
Assange as a journalist. And furthermore, journalistic
freedom and press freedom does not include or give anyone the right to, as you say, conspire
with an individual who’s in the military to
break into a computer, and to find, you know, government records, and even to release the
names of individuals, as I understand, who actually
are working undercover for the U.S. Government in Iraq. That’s not press freedom, that
is, quite frankly, I think, in violation of the Espionage Act. And for one, I do consider it sabotage. Do journalists have to worry about that? I don’t think so, I don’t think
it’s gonna spread out into the mainstream media, as I think all of the hyperbole is suggesting. I think, quite frankly, that it’s a very legitimate prosecution
of this individual. – Macaela, could I have your take, please. – Yes, so from the NewsGuard’s standpoint, Wikileaks is not rated very
highly, and that is because it does not meet a lot
of our nine criteria, such as there is no method through which they discuss vetting the information. And for us that’s very
important for journalists, that there is some process of verifying that that information is correct, and then they are responsibly handing out that information to their audience. You don’t have very much information about who is in charge of the website. I mean, who is the person
putting it together, we don’t really know. So they don’t meet a
lot of those credibility and transparency standards. But, I would say he’s different from a traditional journalist. – Professor, before the program,
we were all talking about what’s going on nowadays. If you have a neighbor
who lives down the block, who writes a blog about the school board. If you have, and it seems
I know a thousand people who all want to put out podcasts nowadays. Are these journalists in
the traditional sense? How should they be treated? Do they have journalistic standards? But some of them would call
themselves citizen journalists. – Oh, sure, and a lot of
people identifying themselves these days, you know,
some guy in the basement just banging out a blog calls
himself a journalist today. What does that really do to
the standards of journalism? These people have no training, whatsoever. They have no training in ethics. They have no training in sources. They have no training on how to report information accurately. So I for one don’t
consider them journalists, I consider them just citizens
who are releasing information to the public. And I know there are those
that identify, you know, Assange as a journalist. But, to me, if we start
identifying individuals like that as journalists, then we
have absolutely no standards or boundaries whatsoever for
journalism in this country. I agree with you, Ron, that
the definition of journalism has gotten so expanded and watered down, that it almost makes the profession somewhat, you know,
(chuckles) somewhat arbitrary, and almost meaningless. I have serious issues with definitions like that of journalism. – So, Macaela, how do we
define who a journalist is? (person laughing) – Well, one of my perspectives is that, I actually talk to a lot of
these citizen journalists, or people who have begun a news website, and all of a sudden,
they’re receiving tons of advertising money from it. And oftentimes, I’ll even talk about their business model with them. There are some who are better than others. There are some of them
who are actually going to the effort to determine
a responsible way of delivering that
information to their readers. And then there are others
that, as the Professor said, they have no training, they
have no idea what they’re doing. So there was one time I had a conversation with a man and his son,
they are publishing a website out of California. It included tons of really
volatile commentary, that was rude to certain
categories of the population. It was presenting
information that was untrue, and so, I found, and
they had no information on the website of who they
were, or what they were doing. So I actually found him
through his attorney, called his attorney’s office,
put me in contact with him, and had a three-hour long
conversation with him, in which my editor hearing
just my side of it, said, “It sounded like you were
giving a Journalism 101 class.” Because, I had to describe
to him, hey, look, in journalism, in the
profession, you are trained that as a news reporter,
you are supposed to keep your commentary separate
from reporting the facts. And he had this really
interesting reply, where he goes, “You know what, I heard
about that on Bret Baier “the other day, I think I know
what you’re talking about.” It was really fun though,
of getting to have that conversation, because we
can see volatile information put up on one of these
citizen journalist websites, and then just assume
that the person behind it is this really evil, negative person. But by having the conversation
with him, and determining where the lack of
understanding was coming from, and after that they
put, they had a sections for their news content. They had one that was labeled guns, one that was labeled like breaking news, and like crime or something. And after I had the conversation
with him, and explained that also like when you
get something wrong, you should issue a correction
and explain to your reader what was wrong, they took down… And I said nothing about the
guns tab, for the record. He took down the guns
tab and the news content, and he replaced it with
a corrections policy. And put it up there, and said
this is our corrections policy so if you the reader find something wrong, please let us know, and then this is how we will notate that. – So, Professor, this
brings us back to the point of how do we know fake
news from real news? And do the politicians, those who come out and say nowadays that there’s
more fake news than ever, and journalists are dishonest? – It comes down around to
education, it really does. And we do have an
electorate, unfortunately, that is relatively uninformed. It comes down to reading
newspapers, I think, a variety of newspapers. Listening to a variety of
radio shows, maybe watching some different channels on television. I don’t know exactly how
you can rectify, you know, the problem of people
not having the ability to distinguish the two. But, the answer to me, is you
just have to encourage people to do more, to find out
on their own, you know, and to read, just read, read the papers, and read the New York Times,
read the Wall Street Journal, read the Christian Science Monitor. Spend some time reading, I
think that’s really where you can have a more discerning public. It sounds idealistic, I know, it might be a little pie in the sky, but we have a, an electorate out there,
and a public, I should say, that really is susceptible
to a lot of misinformation. And the only way to rectify that, I think, is through quality education. – Macaela, with the two or three minutes that we have left in this
segment, can we talk about the younger generation.
– Yeah. – What are they reading, what
are they consuming nowadays? Are they reading newspapers? Do they buy the physical
newspaper and read it, or is that just for someone
who may be a little bit older? – So when we say younger generation, how– – Millennials. – How young are we talking? Okay. Because I work with a lot of high school and middle school students,
we were talking about earlier. When we go to that
young of the generation, they do not what a news brand is. If you, I will sometimes ask
them what news do you read? They’ll say, well, I read whatever pops up on Google, obviously. They say, I read these Instagram accounts and that sort of thing. And I think that even a lot of millennials are that way, as well. – Professor Rose, like, I
see you looking you down and shaking your head. – No, it’s unfortunate, it is. We have people who depend
on just little snippets of things on the internet these days, as opposed to really reading substance. And that’s something we
have to all work on more, you know, to rectify. It’s difficult, I realize. And as she says, you know, the millennial generation
today depends so heavily on information that can be
gleaned off the internet. And it just seems, to me,
so superficial at times. And so, I wish we could
do more about that. – But, Macaela, it’s like I was saying at the beginning of the
program, if you don’t have that 20 second blurb that
all of your friends have, you’re out of the loop, you feel like you’re missing something. And it’s only 20 seconds, but it’s important.
– Exactly. – Just with final
thoughts, one minute each, any way to fix this in the
near future that you could see? – Anyway to fix people
finding good information? – [Ron] Yes. – I think that it’s that there are so many great organizations
that are doing news and media literacy work. And so, however that comes
about, it is providing people with the tools to be able to
look at information online, which is different than a
newspaper, or a magazine, or TV cable station, or something, and make those quick
determinations for themselves, is this something that I think
that I can trust, or not? So it’s like through education, but a specific type of education. – [Ron] Okay, Professor, you
get the final 30 seconds. – Well, no, I think it really
does come down to education, and it has to begin in the schools, where kids have to be encouraged to be, you know, critical
thinkers about the news. To me, if it doesn’t begin
in the schools, then, I’m sorry, it’s not gonna happen. – Professor Gary Rose,
Sacred Heart University, Macaela Bennett, Senior Analyst Director of NewsGuard Technologies, thank you both. – Thanks. – It’s The Full Story on
WSHU, we’ll be right back. (people applauding) (light upbeat music) (machine beeping) – [Spokesperson] On May 16th
of 2018, the new building that will house WSHU Radio was opened. (exultant classical music) – Anyone will be able to tune in and hear incredible live performances, wherever they happen to be. (light classical music) The Sunday Baroque is a great
example of WSHU’s passion for music, because it
started as a local program. And we were so excited about
it, that we knew it had the potential to reach
a much larger audience. So we offered it to National Public Radio, and they were happy to pick it up. Now we’re distributing it on our own, and it is carried over hundreds
and hundreds of stations, not just here in the US, but
internationally, as well. (camera shoots pictures) – As a public radio station, we are here to serve our community. And we think it’s important
that their voices are heard when their stories are being told. – And we know that’s what
our listeners look for, listen for, it’s the kind of reporting that they count on hearing in
depth, whether it’s hard news, arts, culture, whatever it is. – It’s going to allow
us to go more in depth on the issues that we explore every day on Morning Edition and
All Things Considered. But it’s also going to
allow us to interact with our listeners in a different way. (exultant classical music) (light playful classical music) (upbeat hip music) – And it’s The Full
Story on WSHU, and today we’re streaming live on WSHU.org. And we have three more guests rounding out our program today. Matt DeRienzo is Vice President
for News and Digital Content for Hearst Connecticut Media. Mikala Kane is the Senior Content Editor at the Hartford Courant. She runs the Courant’s new
platform, which is aimed at Connecticut millennials,
it’s called The Thread. And Terry Sheridan, who’s
WSHU’s News Director. Thanks all, for being here. – Thank you.
– You’re welcome. – Matt, I have a simple question for you. What’s news, how do you
decide what goes into your paper and online? – Right, I think, so
it’s a combination of, of information and
context about information, stuff that affects people’s
daily lives, right? Getting to this whole question of trust, and stuff like that, I think, we have a long way to go
in engaging with readers and helping them understand
what our process is, and that we’re human beings. What Mikala was saying earlier about the biggest we can do for
trust is to admit our mistakes, and have a really great
corrections policy, and do that. Someone said once, that you
get really good at that, and people will believe you
less, but trust you more, if that makes sense. – [Ron] Sure, because
we all make mistakes. – Right. – Can we just talk a little bit about what the professor was
saying, and he was saying we almost have to take
a step back in time, to go back to the way it
was maybe 20, 30 years ago, slow down a little bit,
have a little bit more accountability, if you will. – Right. Right, so I think, you know, this breaking news environment has– – Everything is breaking news.
– Yeah-yeah, and so, you can’t operate in that environment without getting things wrong, even from, even repeating what
official sources tell you, official sources get it wrong. I remember the Gabby Giffords,
– Right. – you know, case and a
lot of people reporting that she was, at NPR actually, dead. And so, I think news outlets are getting better, I think, the progressive ones about being more transparent about the process, and doing things like how we reported this elements of a story. Being really good at
attribution, and throughout a story saying we know
this because of this, we know this because of this document. And that, in turn, teaches media literacy, in that I would hope that
readers would realize when the difference between
a story that has that, and a story that doesn’t,
if that makes sense. We’re also doing a lot more
on breaking news situations, including even in the past week with this murder case in New Canaan. Where we’ll do, on a daily
basis, here’s what we know, and here’s what we don’t know. And even calling out
things like, you know, we know there’s rumors going
around about this, but, we can tell you that that’s not confirmed, and we don’t have original
reporting on that. Rather than just ignoring it
and putting mystery around the whole process, and
letting people run rampant with their own speculation. – Mikala, we had a
program a few months back, where we had a number of
millennials as our guests. And they told me off the air
what we were just talking about in the last segment, they
don’t read newspapers. I mean, why would they, it’s
not part of their lifestyle. They’ll read something online,
they’ll get little tweets, maybe they’ll go on Facebook, but they weren’t even really
crazy about Facebook, either. Facebook, they said, was for older people. Is this a group that you’re aiming at, how do you get the news to them? – You have to find, I think,
where they already are. They’re not on Facebook. I can’t remember the last time I posted something on Facebook. I think it’s meeting them half way. If that’s Instagram, Instagram is a very visual platform. But you can give them a snippet
of the news in an image, and then take the caption
and give them a little bit. But then also say, hey, we have the link to the full story in our bio,
if you want to read more. I think having the option
for them to do a deeper dive, if they wish, is really important. Because I think some do, and some topics they will read more. It’s not all just snippets or headlines. – Do you have any statistics on that. I mean, are they delving
deeper into certain topics? – I mean, at least for me, like you said, I’m the
Editor for The Thread at the Hartford Courant,
which is a new initiative we’re staring for
millennials in Connecticut. And I’m just starting, I’m
just getting off the ground, so I don’t have my statistics yet. But, I know through
experience with my friends, my neighbors, people my age, that we share news back and forth all the time through a group text, a group chat. We’re like, did you see this today, have you been following this? And we’ll click through, and we will read, it just has to be something
that we want to read about. – Terry told me a great line yesterday. We were talking in the studios, and he, Terry teaches journalism, and he was saying one of his
students came to him and said that she doesn’t go looking for the news. Her line was, “If I need to know it, “it’ll find it’s way to me.”
– Hm-mm. I think I agree with that. And that, I think, is
kind of the hard thing for us in the news to do. We have to get where people are. Because, they’re not going
out of their way to buy a newspaper anymore, or sign-up
for a print subscription. We have to, one, find them, and then two, listen to what they want. I think being more
interactive with readers, and I think being less of, at least for legacy news organizations,
this ivory tower up here that no one quite knows what’s going on. I think we need to bridge
that gap, and find out what they want, and help facilitate that. – Terry Sheridan is our
News Director at WSHU, and Terry and I have known each other for way too many years.
– Too many years. (people laughing) – Too many decades. We’ve both seen the changes
in journalism around here, especially from the radio perspective. As News Director, how do
you decide what goes into the news every day at our radio station? – Well, basically, what we do at WSHU is we serve both Coastal
Connecticut and Connecticut, and also Suffolk County and Long Island. So the first thing we
look for are stories that can serve both audiences,
or both sides of the Sound. The next, and then what we do,
is we try to make the stories that say, may be based in one
area, relatable to everyone. So we look at things like the
environment, we look at things like the opioid crisis,
and we’ll cover that. Obviously, we cover the news of the day, we’re covering the New Canaan mom story. But we just try to make it interesting to everyone of our listeners. – And you and I were speaking
about this the other day. Radio is many ways the
internet, if you will, before the internet became
the internet, because radio has always said you have to
fit it into a certain period of time, it has to be short, to the point, and just get it out there. So when we talk about,
maybe, millennials who are those younger, who are looking
for 20 to 30 seconds of news, that was radio a long time ago. – Oh, yeah, and when I talk to students, and when I talk to some
of our younger listeners, they’ll say, oh, I don’t
listen to the radio, except, and they’ll give
me an example, in the car. Or, I heard this podcast. So that’s something that
we’re looking to do more of, as you said, reaching, being
where our listeners are. And as that changes, whether it’s digital or analog over the air,
we’re trying to move and we’re trying to
reach them in that area. – Okay, now, with the
short time we have left in this segment, are
there, I’d like to turn to the Nancy Pelosi story, because just a few weeks ago
there was doctored video of the House Speaker, Nancy Pelosi, and it was posted on Facebook. And then President Trump’s
lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, who is the Former Mayer of New York City, put it out on Twitter. Now, we have a clip of that video. What you’re going to hear
and see, is a few seconds of Nancy Pelosi speaking at a conference. The first part of the video
is the original recording, and then you’re going to see a portion of the altered video, and
we’re gonna play it now. – Basically, he’s saying back to me, why would I work with you,
if you’re investigating me? But the fact is, something happened there. Basically, he’s saying back to me, why would I work with you,
if you’re investigating me? But the fact is, something happened there. – You can see the altered
video has been slowed down to make it appear as if
this speaker is drinking, has been drinking, or is
in, or has been taking some type of medication. Now, anyone who has a
basic video editing program at home can do this. This is actually a joke,
I mean, an eight-year-old can do this in the basement. It’s not that big of a deal. Now, my question for you
is, should we be upset as so many have been
over something like that, because this appears to be
a political dirty trick, which has gone on forever. This is just the new version of it. – There’s a couple of things here. One is, we can’t play by the
same rules of he said this, she said that, when he or
she is acting in bad faith and deliberately trying
to misinform people. Including with technology, it’s not only that kind of example, but
there’s even more sinister, you’ve heard of these deep, fake videos where we can splice together
something, where it looks like you were saying something
that you totally didn’t. Another thing is, you know, you asked about millennials, and how we, people who are using these new platforms, and stuff like that, and not
listening to Walter Cronkite, how we protect them from misinformation. And I would pushback on that. I think that it wasn’t
young people who fell for the Russian misinformation stuff, it was the Baby Boomer generation.
– Right. – It was my parents who
were falling for that, it was the Walter Cronkite
generation who, I think, don’t know what to do
with this technology, versus the people who are native to it, I think understand this stuff more than, than the older generation– – That’s a very interesting perspective. Mikala, is it because the older generation just isn’t hip enough? (people laughing) – I mean, I think, especially
with something like that, with a doctored video,
because the younger generation probably has played with the
video technology themselves, they know what it looks like,
they might pause and be like– – Sure, you take a video of
your friend, you fix it up, and then you send it to
all the other friends. – You know, isn’t that Instagram, in way? – Right.
– But, you know, so I think because they have
that first hand experience, they might go, hold on a
second, let me look at this, because this looks like
something I could do. You know, how did this end up this way? – [Ron] Interesting, Terry? – Well, I was gonna say, and
I agree with what both of you are saying, that, yes, it’s something that the younger millennials will pick up on. The danger is when you have
your legacy journalists falling for something like this, because we’re in that rush, and it’s like, oh, my God, Nancy Pelosi is drunk! You know, you go with something
maybe you shouldn’t go with, when you should have maybe given yourself an extra 10 minutes, to think it through. – There were thousands of news
outlets across the country that ran with a story just the other day about a teenager in Europe
being granted assisted suicide, to get over depression
over child abuse at age 17. It wasn’t true. There was no assisted
suicide, then that came out in The Guardian a couple days later. But everybody rushing
to get those page views, all the local TV stations
had that up on Facebook. You know, the Facebook thing
is another element of this, or a looming important one. YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, that’s Walter Cronkite, that’s who is, that’s who is editing what people see. But their business model is, relies on it being done without humans. – We have just a few minutes left, I want to squeeze in a few emails. Is Jordan available? We’re gonna bring Jordan out, who is going to actually read some of the comments and the questions that we
got in at [email protected] Jordan, please. – Okay, our first one. How has fake news evolved? – Wow, (laughs) that’s a whole program. (people laughing) Matt, I’ll start with you. – You just saw technology,
it’s involved with technology, it’s involved with platforms pushing it at a massive scale. And it’s evolved in people realizing that in bad faith they can
profit from it financially, and they can profit from it politically. – Mikala, do you want
to take a shot at this? – I mean, I’ll just piggyback. I would say there’s definitely
more of it then, I think, there used to be, because
there are more outlets for it. You have all the different
social media platforms, plus the internet, plus,
you know, everything else. At least for me, I think
there’s definitely just a bigger bucket of it out there. – And I think we have to be careful about what we define as fake news. Is it something that is truly fake, or is it something that
I don’t agree with, and therefore, it has to be fake. That’s, I think, a major thing
that we as news consumers, much as we are producers,
have to deal with. – And from a talk show
perspective, we’ve done a number of programs recently,
one was about vaccination and measles, and just
presenting the opposing side. I got a number of emails
from people saying you’re putting out fake
information, fake news, misinformation, this is a bad talk show. It depends, as you say,
on your point of view. Jordan, do we have another email? – We do. Do you think that social media is to blame for the rapid spread of fake
news, or is it something else? – Ah, Mikala? – Oh, goodness. That’s like the chicken or
the egg question, you know. Does social media probably give a bigger outlet to fake news? Yes, that’s basically what I just said, that there’s more out there
because there are more ways for it to get out there. But at the same time, I think
social media is valuable in reaching news consumers, and those who do care about facts,
and things like that. Can you have one without the other? I’m not so sure. – Terry, do you want to
take 30 seconds on this one? – I think social media,
the problem or a problem with social media, is that
most people don’t read the post that has been shared. They’ll see a headline,
they’ll see a photo, they’ll see something
that they agree with, or they disagree with,
depending upon, you know, what the person is trying to provoke, and then they’ll share it,
because, obviously, it’s right. You know, it agrees
with me, I’ll share it. And they won’t read the
full, no pun intended, the full story, to see
whether this is a parody post, to see whether this is
deliberate propaganda, or this is deliberate misinformation. – Okay, Jordan, time for one more? – Yes, one last one. Based on today’s media climate,
what is one piece of advice you have to offer for young journalists? – Ah, I’ll go down the line here, Matt? – Admit when you’re wrong,
engage with readers, involve readers in the process of what everything that you do. – I like what you were saying before, and I know there’s a
trend to that nowadays, to have reporters actually
document along the way what they’re doing to
put the story together. – Absolutely.
– Which is time consuming! – Yeah. – Mikala? – I guess my piece of advice
would be to stay open to not only new pieces of content, but how you’re delivering it, how you’re trying to reach the readers,
getting to know them. I mean, just be really flexible. This industry keeps changing,
and I think for the better. And I think we just
need to stay open about how we navigate it. – Terry? – I would say defend every fact as if you had to defend it in court. Is this right, are we certain? Who else do I need to speak to? What else do I, what other information do we need to bring in? And as long as you’re questioning yourself as you go forward, you’ll
probably be on the right track. – We have about 2 1/2 minutes left. Mikala, I want to pickup on
something that you just said, what will journalism look like
five to 10 years from now? Any way to look into that crystal ball? – I mean, you know, if you
had asked me five years ago would my generation say that
Facebook is for old people. No, you know, like it
became this thing that my mother is really into,
and I’m not so much anymore. I think it’s so hard to predict,
so I think just in order for this industry to keep
going, we have to, like I said, have to stay open,
whatever it ends up being. – Matt? – Well, I want to pushback
that was said earlier, about the people in their basement. Because, I think that what
journalism is starting to look like now, and
will in the future is, instead of it being
controlled by Walter Cronkite and a couple of big companies,
you’re gonna see thousands of people on a grassroots
level taking responsibility for the information
needs of their community. We need to define and protect
the act of journalism, which anybody can do, rather than trying to define who is a journalist. – So you’re saying more
citizen journalists? – Absolutely, yeah. – Terry? – I don’t think we can predict five years, I don’t even think we
predict a year from now. I mean, 10 years ago, if you
woulda told me most people get their news, or most people
of a certain age get their news off social
media, or even that we would have social media,
I would, what’s that? When I first got into this business 30 (vibrates lips) years ago, the internet wasn’t even
on the horizon, or thought, it was something that
didn’t even enter our minds. I think the way that the
technology is speeding up, I think trying to guess where it’s going is a fool’s errand. – It was an interesting discussion today, I enjoyed it, I hope
everyone here enjoyed it. We’re actually gonna be sticking
around for a little bit, continuing the program at
WSHU.org, streaming it, if you have any questions or comments. And it’ll continue also
on YouTube, but I want to thank everyone here
who is on the panel today. Special thanks right now
to Mr. Terry Sheridan, who is our News Director at WSHU. Mikala Kane is the Senior Content Editor at the Hartford Courant,
and she runs The Thread, aimed at millennials and younger? – Yeah, we’ll say
millennials, for now. (laughs) – All right, for now.
(person laughing) And Matt DeRienzo is
Vice President for News and Digital Content for the
Hearst Connecticut Media Group. Thank you, all.
– Thanks. – It was a pleasure. All right, that is going to
do it for our show today. We have special thanks to
Professor Joe Alicastro, and the faculty and students at the School of Communication,
Media & the Arts at Sacred Heart University. Julie Freddino is our
Engineer, Carrie Frank is the Digital Editor,
our Associate Producers are Christian Carter, Sabrina Garone, and Natalie Cioffari, J.D.
Allen is the Producer, Ann Lopez is the Senior
Producer, and Terry Sheridan is not just our panelist,
he’s also our News Director. Thanks, for watching. (people applauding) (upbeat hip music) – [Spokesperson] The
Connecticut Legislature had a June 5th deadline,
they didn’t make it. So, they’ll be special session. On the next The Full
Story we’ll talk about what made it and didn’t That means tolls, the
minimum wage, Ethan’s Law, marijuana, the budget, early
voting, sports betting, and a lot more. That’ll be next time, on The Full Story. (light upbeat music) – Ladies and Gentlemen, our
radio program is ending, but please stay tuned on the live stream for audience questions with
our host and panelists. You can come to me in the center
aisle, with your questions. – Does anyone have a
question for our panelists? Yes, sir, why don’t you come on up. – Thank you. (person mumbling) Hi, I’m Will, my question is this. We talk about diversity in
almost every work environment, and I think it’s very important,
it’s incredibly important. However, I know that studies have shown that journalists happen to
have a certain political bias, and I’m wondering if we’re not
doing enough in the newsroom to have diversity of
thought, as well diversity in many other categories,
and if that would change the perception of media bias? – All right, Matt?
– Thank you. – To be honest, I think
that life experience, and gender diversity, and racial diversity is more important than
to, say, define people who have one political
philosophy versus another. I know in my newsroom
it’s a pretty wide range of political philosophies. I think if you’re doing your job
right, the political philosophy shouldn’t change the underlying aspect of fact gathering
and presentation of context. That requires relentless focus on context, and listening
to readers, and focus on the words we use, which
are really important. And like, you know, I’ve,
you know, taught some classes at Quinnipiac and other places, and have spent whole
semesters just talking about loaded language that we use, and how that can shape
things, if that makes sense. – [Ron] Mikala? – I will say that I think
that diversity in newsrooms is incredibly important,
and I think it’s something that a lot of newsrooms, news
organizations need to work on. Like you said, gender, racial, I agree, that I think that is more important than, say, political point of view diversity. I think it’s something that
this industry, you know, it’s something we all need to work on. – Terry, is there a perception
of certain news organizations that cannot be changed, even though the organizations themselves
may strive to be balanced, because one political group
will simply say, you know what, they’re leaning that particular direction? They’re Democrats, they’re Republicans, and I’m simply not gonna
watch them, because of that. – Well, I think you have that perception, and I think in a lot of cases
that perception is correct. But I think in certain cases, like we brought up Fox News before, if you look at some of
the reporters on Fox News, they have been very
critical of what’s going on in the country now with
the administration. It’s when you get to certain
of the talk show hosts, where you get into a problem. I just want to go back to
something you were saying. I think if you have a diverse newsroom, you will have a diverse thought
process in the newsroom. And the other thing,
to go back to something that Jaci said earlier,
is we all have biases. I have a prism on my desk,
one of my friend’s father was an optician, he
cut glass that would go on the Lunar Module. All that bias is, is a prism,
it’s the prism you look at life through, that you
look at the world through. You have to acknowledge
that you have this bias in front of you, but you
just have to put it aside, and be objective. And I think that is something
that we can do to build, you know, trust, if we
just say, hey, you know, yeah, I have political views. I don’t have, you know, I’m
not neutral, but my reporting, and my journalists, and what
we put on the air is neutral. – All right, next question. – Hi, Greg Golda from the
Communications School here. I like to always connect with people who are out there doing
journalism, and I just wanted to know, what are the first
things that you look for when our students come to you, when they apply? – Matt? – Curiosity, right? (laughs) I think that’s number one. I can always hold someone back from asking too many questions,
or pursuing things. But, to nudge someone out
the door, and get them to recognize what’s interesting to people, so that natural curiosity and passion for telling other people’s stories. Above any other, above any digital skill, above any writing skill, yeah. – Someone who’s just curious. Terry, same way for radio? – Well, someone who’s just curious. And again, maybe I’m
old school in this, but, are we talking someone who’s
looking for a job from me? – Yeah.
– I would, presentation is key. If you’re late, if you
don’t dress appropriately. I don’t mean you have
to put on a suit or tie, but if you look professional. If you have a resume, if
you just present yourself as someone who’s gonna
make my life easier. That’s basically, you know,
the point if you’re looking for a job.
– That’s how they get in the door. – Is how are you gonna
make my life easier? I don’t ask that, they don’t tell me, but, you know, we can go on that. – Mikala, what do you look for? – I think for me, it’s two things. Definitely someone who’s
a critical thinker. I know, personally, I had
a liberal arts education, and that’s basically what
they drilled into me, and it really helps in the news industry and in journalism, just anything you see, you have to think critically
and have that approach to it. But, going off of
something I said earlier, for the job that I’m doing,
and I work very closely with our audience engagement
team at the Courant, we’re trying new things
every day, of, you know, how to get the news out
there, and what format, at what time, you know. Is it a podcast, is it a
long form traditional story, things like that. I’m looking for someone who isn’t afraid of trying new things, because
we’re doing that every day. – Just on a really specific thing. People who have edited
their college paper, or worked on the college paper,
people who have good clips, there’s nothing preventing
any student at any level from going out and writing good stories, and doing good work, and
having those clips to show. – Can I turn it around just a little bit, because you were saying that you think the future may be citizen journalists. Would that be someone you would consider also working for you? – Yeah, so, yeah, I mean, absolutely. Any person can go out there and do acts of journalism, and there are. I mean, there’s hundreds
of sites that are following all or most of the standards
that Mikala’s group has, that are online, that were funded, many of them started by
journalists who were laid off from legacy media.
– Sure. – But others who are
just, are self-taught. You know, there’s no magic
dust that they sprinkle over your head, when you graduate
with a journalism degree, that makes you a professional journalist. I don’t have a journalism degree, and I’ve been in the
business for a long time. It’s more what you do, than… – One more question. – Hi, my name is Rob
Watzak, and I’d like to just in my daily experiences with people believe that most people
have a lot more in common than they do have differences. We’ve touched on it earlier, that part of the polarization of news media is because the markets are chasing their audiences, and drama gets attention. Do you think that it’s more
just a byproduct of that, that market nature, or that there is more of an agenda behind those,
you know, that situation? – Terry, I’m gonna start with
you, because this goes back to something when you and I
were starting in journalism. (laughs) One of the rules
was, if it bleeds, it leads. As disgusting as that
sounds, you would hear old-time journalists
say that all the time. That’s what made the headlines. – Right, I worked 1010 WINS,
so I’m very familiar with that. But the thing is, also,
conflict is a news driver. It is one of the things
that makes stories stories. Again, we may not agree with how that is, how that is presented, but,
yeah, I mean, for certain. It’s the easiest thing,
if you’re talking looking at something on one of
the 24-hour news networks, you know, what is it? There are people screaming at each other. It’s bad journalism, but
it’s good television. – Mikala? – I will delve a little
into my past for this one. Before I started doing
the job I’m doing now, I was the Front Page Editor
at the Hartford Courant. Part of my job, in
consultation with our editor, was to decide what was going on the front page every evening. And, you know, I’m not that old-school, but if it bleeds, it leads,
it’s definitely a thing that we would say jokingly, but, I like to think we also would
sit back and be like, okay, we have three crime
stories out there today, can we maybe, is one of
those, can we swap that out for something a little more
light, to give it some balance? I think that’s what we
were always striving for, is that balance. – One of the things I think
that’s encouraging right now, is there’s a movement around
the country, and actually, there’s concrete stuff, where almost all of Connecticut media
right now is collaborating on something called the
Cities Project, which is going with a concept called
solutions journalism. So instead of just saying, you know, our cities are blighted, blah-blah-blah, we have a horrible opioid
crisis, isn’t is horrible, quote this person, quote
some stats, it is with a critical eye, not just a
Pollyanna view of happy things, it is, well, opioid crisis
is happening all over the country, what are
other communities doing that has actually worked, and evaluating the success of that. And so… – So you’re looking for solutions? – Exactly, yeah, and I think that that’s a very positive step forward. Also, to find common ground
amongst our readers, too, yeah. – Okay. I believe we’re done. – We are.
– Jordan, thank you. – Thank you. – Once again, thank you
all, Mikala, Matt, Terry. And that’ll wrap it up for
this portion of our program. Thanks, to everyone here, for being with us today, appreciate it. (people applauding) (people mumbling) (people applauding) – Thank you, again, everyone. You’re invited to join us
downstairs in the atrium, for some food and drinks. Thank you, again. – Thank you.
– Thank you. – Thank you, guys, thanks for (mumbles). (upbeat hip music) (people conversing in background) – [Female] Oh, okay. – [Male] It’s just interesting stuff. And anyway, congratulations! – [Female] 24 weeks (music covers words). – [Male] Congratulations, I
mean, you’re on the fast track, I mean, that’s dynamite! I think that is such a great paper! – It is, it is.
– I mean, that’s dynamite! (person mumbling) – [Male] Right. – [Female] You know, like
some things that you’ve read, some things that I’m
gonna learn a (mumbles). – Right.
– I know, and I think we all are. – [Male] I know, you were
saying to try different things. Oh, yeah, I mean, that was
the essence of everything, because I had no idea. I think that I would have
(music covers words). I’m confident my studio has
never picked up a newspaper, in his life. That was the only time
he fixed it up, was on… (upbeat hip music) (fading music)