Brett Kavanaugh’s College Friends Say He Lied Under Oath About Drinking | The Last Word | MSNBC

Brett Kavanaugh’s College Friends Say He Lied Under Oath About Drinking | The Last Word | MSNBC

September 18, 2019 100 By Stanley Isaacs


>>>WE DRANK BEER.>>>WE DRANK BEER. WE LIKED BEER. WE LIKED BEER.>>WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER TO BE>>WHAT DO YOU CONSIDER TO BE TOO MANY BEERS? TOO MANY BEERS?>>I DON’T KNOW.>>I DON’T KNOW. YOU KNOW, WE — WHATEVER THE YOU KNOW, WE — WHATEVER THE CHART SAYS ON BLOOD ALCOHOL CHART SAYS ON BLOOD ALCOHOL CHART. CHART.>>YOU KNOW WHO DOESN’T KNOW>>YOU KNOW WHO DOESN’T KNOW WHAT TOO MANY BEERS IS? WHAT TOO MANY BEERS IS? SOMEONE WHO DRINKS TOO MANY SOMEONE WHO DRINKS TOO MANY BEERS. BEERS. JOINING OUR DISCUSSION NOW, LIZ JOINING OUR DISCUSSION NOW, LIZ SWISHER AND LYNNE BROOKES. SWISHER AND LYNNE BROOKES. BOTH WERE FRIENDS OF KAVANAUGH’S BOTH WERE FRIENDS OF KAVANAUGH’S IN COLLEGE AND ROOMMATES WITH IN COLLEGE AND ROOMMATES WITH DEBORAH RAMIREZ, WHO HAS ACCUSED DEBORAH RAMIREZ, WHO HAS ACCUSED BRETT KAVANAUGH OF SEXUAL BRETT KAVANAUGH OF SEXUAL AGGRESSIVENESS, I GUESS WE COULD AGGRESSIVENESS, I GUESS WE COULD CALL IT. CALL IT. LIZ SWISHER, YOUR REACTION TO LIZ SWISHER, YOUR REACTION TO WHAT YOU HEARD BRETT KAVANAUGH WHAT YOU HEARD BRETT KAVANAUGH SAY UNDER OATH ABOUT HIS SAY UNDER OATH ABOUT HIS DRINKING? DRINKING?>>I WAS APPALLED.>>I WAS APPALLED. HE WAS CLEARLY LYING, AND IT WAS HE WAS CLEARLY LYING, AND IT WAS INCREDIBLY DISTURBING TO SEE INCREDIBLY DISTURBING TO SEE SOMEBODY PERJURING THEMSELVES SOMEBODY PERJURING THEMSELVES WHO IS IN LINE TO BE A SUPREME WHO IS IN LINE TO BE A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE. COURT JUSTICE.>>LYNNE BROOKES, YOUR REACTION>>LYNNE BROOKES, YOUR REACTION TO WHAT YOU HEARD? TO WHAT YOU HEARD?>>I AGREE.>>I AGREE. THE REASON THAT I DECIDED TO THE REASON THAT I DECIDED TO SPEAK OUT WAS WHEN HE GAVE THE SPEAK OUT WAS WHEN HE GAVE THE “FOX NEWS” INTERVIEW, AND AS I “FOX NEWS” INTERVIEW, AND AS I SAID IN “THE WASHINGTON POST”, SAID IN “THE WASHINGTON POST”, TRIED TO PAINT HIMSELF AS A TRIED TO PAINT HIMSELF AS A CHOIR BOY WHERE ALL HE DID WAS CHOIR BOY WHERE ALL HE DID WAS STUDY AND PLAY SPORTS AND EVERY STUDY AND PLAY SPORTS AND EVERY ONCE IN A WHILE HE WOULD HAVE A ONCE IN A WHILE HE WOULD HAVE A BEER. BEER. THAT’S SIMPLY NOT CONSISTENT THAT’S SIMPLY NOT CONSISTENT WITH THE BRETT KAVANAUGH THAT I WITH THE BRETT KAVANAUGH THAT I KNEW IN COLLEGE. KNEW IN COLLEGE.>>I MEAN, LIZ, HE COULD HAVE>>I MEAN, LIZ, HE COULD HAVE TESTIFIED THAT, YEAH, YOU KNOW, TESTIFIED THAT, YEAH, YOU KNOW, I DRANK, I GOT DRUNK A LOT. I DRANK, I GOT DRUNK A LOT. I DON’T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT I DON’T DO ANYTHING LIKE THAT NOW. NOW. THAT WAS MY, YOU KNOW, TEENAGE THAT WAS MY, YOU KNOW, TEENAGE YEARS AND MY COLLEGE YEARS, AND YEARS AND MY COLLEGE YEARS, AND THEN GONE BACK TO HIS, I THINK, THEN GONE BACK TO HIS, I THINK, GOOD TALKING POINT THAT, LOOK, I GOOD TALKING POINT THAT, LOOK, I THE ALL OF MY HOMEWORK, I GOT THE ALL OF MY HOMEWORK, I GOT ALL OF MY WORK DONE, SO HOW BAD ALL OF MY WORK DONE, SO HOW BAD COULD IT BE. COULD IT BE. BUT HE SEEMED TO TRY TO DO BUT HE SEEMED TO TRY TO DO EVERYTHING HE COULD TO MINIMIZE EVERYTHING HE COULD TO MINIMIZE THE DRINKING. THE DRINKING.>>RIGHT.>>RIGHT. THAT’S WHAT WAS SURPRISING TO THAT’S WHAT WAS SURPRISING TO ME, IS THAT I DRANK TOO MUCH IN ME, IS THAT I DRANK TOO MUCH IN COLLEGE, I THINK A LOT OF KIDS COLLEGE, I THINK A LOT OF KIDS DRINK TOO MUCH IN COLLEGE. DRINK TOO MUCH IN COLLEGE. BUT IF YOU ARE ABLE TO GET, YOU BUT IF YOU ARE ABLE TO GET, YOU KNOW, GET YOUR WORK DONE AND YOU KNOW, GET YOUR WORK DONE AND YOU MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND YOU MOVE ON WITH YOUR LIFE AND YOU DON’T DRINK AS MUCH, WE ALL DON’T DRINK AS MUCH, WE ALL DRINK A FAIR AMOUNT AND WE MADE DRINK A FAIR AMOUNT AND WE MADE SOME STUPID CHOICES. SOME STUPID CHOICES. THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TOTALLY THAT WOULD HAVE BEEN TOTALLY FINE, IF HE HAD SAID THAT I FINE, IF HE HAD SAID THAT I WOULDN’T BE HERE TODAY. WOULDN’T BE HERE TODAY.>>AND, LYNNE, LET’S TALK ABOUT>>AND, LYNNE, LET’S TALK ABOUT DEBORAH RAMIREZ. DEBORAH RAMIREZ. YOU BOTH WERE ROOMMATES AND YOU BOTH WERE ROOMMATES AND FRIENDLY WITH DEBORAH RAMIREZ FRIENDLY WITH DEBORAH RAMIREZ AND HER STORY OF BRETT KAVANAUGH AND HER STORY OF BRETT KAVANAUGH BEING REALLY INCOHERENTLY DRUNK BEING REALLY INCOHERENTLY DRUNK AND DROPPING HIS PANTS AND AND DROPPING HIS PANTS AND AGGRESSIVELY THRUSTING HIMSELF AGGRESSIVELY THRUSTING HIMSELF IN HER FACE AND SHE HAD TO PUSH IN HER FACE AND SHE HAD TO PUSH HIM AWAY AND TOUCH HIM IN A WAY HIM AWAY AND TOUCH HIM IN A WAY THAT DISGUSTED HER. THAT DISGUSTED HER. WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THAT WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO THAT STORY? STORY?>>WELL, I DID NOT WITNESS ANY>>WELL, I DID NOT WITNESS ANY OF THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR. OF THAT KIND OF BEHAVIOR. I DIDN’T WITNESS THAT SPECIFIC I DIDN’T WITNESS THAT SPECIFIC INCIDENT, NOR DID I WITNESS INCIDENT, NOR DID I WITNESS BRETT DOING THAT AT ANY OF THE BRETT DOING THAT AT ANY OF THE PARTIES THAT I WAS AT WITH HIM. PARTIES THAT I WAS AT WITH HIM. I DO BELIEVE DEB AUBIE RAMIREZ’S I DO BELIEVE DEB AUBIE RAMIREZ’S ACCOUNT. ACCOUNT. SHE IS NOT SOMEONE THAT WOULD SHE IS NOT SOMEONE THAT WOULD COME FORWARD AND LIE, BUT THAT’S COME FORWARD AND LIE, BUT THAT’S NOT BEHAVIOR I WITNESSED FROM NOT BEHAVIOR I WITNESSED FROM BRETT KAVANAUGH. BRETT KAVANAUGH.>>LIZ, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION>>LIZ, WHAT WAS YOUR REACTION TO DEBBIE RAMIREZ’S STORY. TO DEBBIE RAMIREZ’S STORY.>>YEAH, WELL, THAT WAS VERY>>YEAH, WELL, THAT WAS VERY UPSETTING BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE UPSETTING BECAUSE I DO BELIEVE DEBBIE. DEBBIE. SHE IS VERY HONEST. SHE IS VERY HONEST. SHE WAS AN INNOCENT PERSON, BUT SHE WAS AN INNOCENT PERSON, BUT I WAS NOT ABLE TO CORROBORATE I WAS NOT ABLE TO CORROBORATE THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN, I WASN’T THAT BECAUSE, AGAIN, I WASN’T THERE. THERE. BUT MEN RARELY DO THOSE TYPES OF BUT MEN RARELY DO THOSE TYPES OF THINGS WHEN OTHER GIRLS ARE THINGS WHEN OTHER GIRLS ARE AROUND. AROUND.>>AND, LYNNE, THE RAMIREZ,>>AND, LYNNE, THE RAMIREZ, DEBBIE RAMIREZ’S ACCUSATION IS DEBBIE RAMIREZ’S ACCUSATION IS SOMETHING THAT PRESUMABLY THE SOMETHING THAT PRESUMABLY THE FBI WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THIS FBI WILL TAKE A LOOK AT THIS WEEK. WEEK. DO YOU SUPPOSE THEY’LL BE ABLE DO YOU SUPPOSE THEY’LL BE ABLE TO FIND ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE A TO FIND ANYONE WHO MIGHT BE A WITNESS TO THAT? WITNESS TO THAT?>>WELL, SHE DOES RECALL PEOPLE>>WELL, SHE DOES RECALL PEOPLE IN THE ROOM AND THERE WERE IN THE ROOM AND THERE WERE CERTAINLY PEOPLE THAT WERE CERTAINLY PEOPLE THAT WERE REFERENCED IN “THE NEW YORKER” REFERENCED IN “THE NEW YORKER” ARTICLE ALTHOUGH THEIR NAMES ARTICLE ALTHOUGH THEIR NAMES WEREN’T GIVEN. WEREN’T GIVEN. I COULD DETERMINE WHO THEY WERE I COULD DETERMINE WHO THEY WERE AND HOPEFULLY THEY WILL SPEAK AND HOPEFULLY THEY WILL SPEAK TRUTHFULLY TO THE FBI. TRUTHFULLY TO THE FBI.>>LIZ, YOU SEE A COLLEGE FRIEND>>LIZ, YOU SEE A COLLEGE FRIEND ON HIS WAY TO AS BIG A JOB AS ON HIS WAY TO AS BIG A JOB AS YOU CAN GET REALLY, AND HE YOU CAN GET REALLY, AND HE STARTS TALKING ABOUT HIS STARTS TALKING ABOUT HIS DRINKING PUBLICLY AND HE DRINKING PUBLICLY AND HE UNDERSTATES IT. UNDERSTATES IT. WHY WASN’T THAT SOMETHING YOU WHY WASN’T THAT SOMETHING YOU COULD JUST LET SLIDE? COULD JUST LET SLIDE?>>BECAUSE THAT WAS BLURRING THE>>BECAUSE THAT WAS BLURRING THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRUTH AND DIFFERENCE BETWEEN TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD, AND FOR SOMEBODY WHO FALSEHOOD, AND FOR SOMEBODY WHO IS A FEDERAL JUDGE AND IN LINE IS A FEDERAL JUDGE AND IN LINE POTENTIALLY TO BE IN THE HIGHEST POTENTIALLY TO BE IN THE HIGHEST COURT IN OUR COUNTRY, THERE CAN COURT IN OUR COUNTRY, THERE CAN BE NO BLURRING OF TRUTH AND BE NO BLURRING OF TRUTH AND FALSEHOOD. FALSEHOOD. THERE CAN BE NO ALTERNATIVE THERE CAN BE NO ALTERNATIVE FACTS. FACTS. WE NEED SOMEBODY WHO STANDS BY WE NEED SOMEBODY WHO STANDS BY TRUTH AND JUSTICE. TRUTH AND JUSTICE.>>AND, LYNNE, CERTAINLY THERE>>AND, LYNNE, CERTAINLY THERE ARE DOZENS OF OTHER YALE PEOPLE ARE DOZENS OF OTHER YALE PEOPLE WHO CERTAINLY SAW THE SAME THING WHO CERTAINLY SAW THE SAME THING YOU DID AT THE SAME PARTIES. YOU DID AT THE SAME PARTIES. THEY’RE NOT COMING FORWARD. THEY’RE NOT COMING FORWARD. WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE THAT YOU WHAT MADE YOU DECIDE THAT YOU COULDN’T JUST SIT BACK WHEN YOU COULDN’T JUST SIT BACK WHEN YOU HEARD BRETT KAVANAUGH SAY THESE HEARD BRETT KAVANAUGH SAY THESE THINGS? THINGS?>>WELL, I TEND TO AGREE WITH>>WELL, I TEND TO AGREE WITH LIZ, THAT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT LIZ, THAT IT IS REALLY IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE THAT FEEL THAT FOR PEOPLE THAT FEEL THAT THERE’S A NEED FOR TRUTH IN THERE’S A NEED FOR TRUTH IN TODAY’S DIALOGUE TO COME FORWARD TODAY’S DIALOGUE TO COME FORWARD AND SPEAK OUT. AND SPEAK OUT. OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM IS BASED ON OUR JUDICIAL SYSTEM IS BASED ON THE FOUNDATION OF TRUTH, AND IF THE FOUNDATION OF TRUTH, AND IF YOU CAN’T BELIEVE A FEDERAL YOU CAN’T BELIEVE A FEDERAL JUDGE OR A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE JUDGE OR A SUPREME COURT JUSTICE IN WHAT THEY SAY, THEN WHERE IN WHAT THEY SAY, THEN WHERE REALLY IS OUR SWRUJUDICIAL SYSTE REALLY IS OUR SWRUJUDICIAL SYSTE THAT’S WHY I GOT ANGRY WHEN I THAT’S WHY I GOT ANGRY WHEN I SAW HOW BRETT CHARACTERIZED SAW HOW BRETT CHARACTERIZED HIMSELF IN THE “FOX NEWS” HIMSELF IN THE “FOX NEWS” INTERVIEW BECAUSE IT IS NOT INTERVIEW BECAUSE IT IS NOT CONSISTENT. CONSISTENT. IT IS NOT TRUTHFUL, AND THERE IS IT IS NOT TRUTHFUL, AND THERE IS NOT A SEPARATE REALITY OF NOT A SEPARATE REALITY OF ALTERNATIVE FACTS. ALTERNATIVE FACTS. PEOPLE NEED TO SPEAK TRUTH TO PEOPLE NEED TO SPEAK TRUTH TO POWER. POWER.>>AND THE FBI IS GOING TO BE>>AND THE FBI IS GOING TO BE INVESTIGATING NOW, AND BECAUSE INVESTIGATING NOW, AND BECAUSE HIS TESTIMONY ABOUT HOW MUCH HE HIS TESTIMONY ABOUT HOW MUCH HE DRANK IS NOW RELEVANT, THE FBI DRANK IS NOW RELEVANT, THE FBI MIGHT AND PROBABLY WILL WANT TO MIGHT AND PROBABLY WILL WANT TO TALK TO YOU. TALK TO YOU. LIZ, ARE YOU PREPARED TO TALK TO LIZ, ARE YOU PREPARED TO TALK TO THE FBI KNOWING THAT ANY — THE FBI KNOWING THAT ANY — ANYTHING THAT YOU SAY THAT’S NOT ANYTHING THAT YOU SAY THAT’S NOT TRUE THE FBI COULD BE CONSIDERED TRUE THE FBI COULD BE CONSIDERED A FEDERAL CRIME? A FEDERAL CRIME?>>OF COURSE.>>OF COURSE. I WILL SPEAK TRUTH. I WILL SPEAK TRUTH.>>AND LYNNE?>>AND LYNNE?>>ABSOLUTELY.>>ABSOLUTELY. 100%. 100%. I’M VERY CONFIDENT IN WHAT I’VE I’M VERY CONFIDENT IN WHAT I’VE BEEN SAYING PUBLICLY. BEEN SAYING PUBLICLY.>>LYNNE BROOKES, LIZ SWISHER,